Time Out in Beirut and Tel Aviv

This is the story of two men, one from Beirut and one from Tel Aviv, who met less than four months ago and formed an instant friendship. They believed that the things they had in common were far more significant than politics – until the twisted reality of the Middle East interfered with that conviction.

Amir Ben-David, editor of Time Out Tel Aviv.

Ramsay Short, editor of Time Out Beirut.

This is the July 20 cover of Time Out Tel Aviv, published one week after the current conflict began. It is based on a famous 1970's New Yorker cover, A View of New York from Ninth Avenue. But whereas the world beyond New York's Hudson River is portrayed as a quiet, peaceful place, the world beyond Tel Aviv's Yarkon River is one of turmoil and violence. To the right are Baghdad and Tehran; on the left are Haifa, Tiberias, Carmiel, Acre and Kiryat Shmona – areas that have been under constant bombardment since July 12. The cluster of buildings at the top is Beirut.

As Amir Ben-David explained, the three brown boulders bridging the body of water that separates Tel Aviv from “the rest of the world” illustrate that, for all our ironic references to living in a bubble, it is impossible to ignore what is going on around us. We are all connected and the country is very small – we all have friends or family who live up north (just an hour or two away by car), or we know people who have fled the bombardment and become refugees, or we have relatives who are being called up for emergency army reserve service. We are all glued to the television and internet, constantly looking for news updates. 'And we are all worried.

This is the cover of the July issue of Time Out Beirut. It is all about Lebanon's summer festivals, like the renowned Baalbeck Festival. They've been cancelled, for obvious reasons. Publication of Time Out Beirut has also been suspended; Ramsay is still in Beirut, but half his staff has fled. And anyway, a magazine about entertainment would seem rather inappropriate just now, even though there are still some Beirutis who are managing to continue living in their own bubble.

The main story in the July 20 issue of Time Out Tel Aviv is about the connection between Ramsay and Amir – how they met and became friends, and how their relationship was affected by the fighting that broke out between their countries on July 12. The article opens with Amir's explanatory introduction, which I translated below:

Ramsay and I

By Amir Ben-David

We met in May at a world conference for editors and publishers of Time Out that was held, so symbolically, in Cyprus – the island that overlooks Lebanon and Israel from a safe spot in the heart of the Mediterranean.

The click between us was instant. Perhaps it was due to the Levantine temperament, the similar spark in the eyes. Very quickly it became apparent to all the participants at the conference that the people of Time Out Tel Aviv and the people of Time Out Beirut got along extremely well: during meals, during trips, with a frozen glass of vodka on the beach.

Ramsay Short, the editor of Time Out Beirut – the first edition was published just a few days before the conference – proved to be relaxed, friendly, and easygoing. The guy who wrote The Hedonist’s Guide to Beirut and enjoys being a DJ of electro music in bars during his spare time would have fit easily into Tel Aviv.

Now he is hiding in his house near the Beirut port, terrified of the Israeli bombs. You will be able to read about his depressing experiences and his even more depressing conclusions in this article. His words are full of rage, unfiltered and uncensored. It is not easy for an Israeli to read them. Even someone who supports “Israel’s strong response” to Hizbollah’s provocation should ask himself if hurting hundreds of thousands of Lebanese citizens and pursuers of peace like Ramsay Short and making them into sworn haters of Israel is the right thing to do under these circumstances.

In Cyprus in May we all expressed the belief that the past belongs to violent fundamentalists and the future belongs to us: Israelis and Lebanese who want peace and prosperity. Together with the publishers of Time out Beirut – Nehameh Abu and his wife, Naomi Sargent – we solved all the problems of the region in five minutes and turned to thinking about the coming years. When we parted at the airport in Nicosia we agreed that as soon as we returned home we would start to plan together a Time Out Festival of Mediterranean Culture: Three days of music, films, dance and theatre from Lebanon, Israel, Cyprus and Turkey.

On Monday afternoon I received an email from Naomi. Nehameh was in London. She and the children were relatively protected, in a Christian village outside Beirut that was not supposed to be a target of the Israeli Air Force. In the morning she was forced to go to the office in order to take care of some urgent work matters. A bomb fell close to her. She ran outside and got into her car in order to return to the village, and then another bomb landed right near her. “Civilians are being killed here,” she writes, “And this must be stopped.”

The Time Out Festival of Mediterranean Culture will be held some other time.

The rest of the article is a Hebrew tranlsation of excerpts taken from Ramsay's blog, Beirut Live, in which he chronicles his thoughts and experiences together with two other contributors. It is not, as Amir points out, an easy blog for Israelis to read. It is full of rage, accusations against Israel that are often false, paranoid or unjust. I could not bring myself to read all the entries, partly because I have read or heard it all before in different forums and I didn't see any reason to subject myself to the same litany once again.

I try very hard not to attach too much significance to what I call “the rants,” just as
I try not to judge the residents of northern Israel who, after nearly three weeks of cowering in filthy, steaming public bomb shelters, are expressing unfiltered rage and despair to the media. People say terrible things, sometimes, when they are under emotional stress. Sometimes you just have to step back and let the bile flow, until it dries up of its own accord and reason re-asserts itself.

I know I'm lucky to be in Tel Aviv, lucky that my life remains intact. My own despair is more of the existential angst variety – watching as the tourists empty out of Tel Aviv just as we were experiencing our first “normal” summer since the intifada began in 2000, worrying about friends who are called up to the army, worrying about the future of this country…. (sigh). Well, that's all for another post.

I called Amir Ben-David the day I read the article. Those of you who have been reading this blog for a while will understand why I identified so strongly with him. At the time, I was planning to help put together an article about this story for a newspaper, but publication has been delayed indefinitely. So instead, I get to be self-indulgent and ramble on as much as I please in this forum. Tant mieux.

Amir grew up in nothern Israel. He has family in areas that are under bombardment and relatives who have been called up for emergency combat duty. “The way I see it,” he said, “I have friends in the north and I have friends further north, in Beirut. Ramsay is not just someone I met on the internet. He is someone I know personally and I see him as a real friend.” Then he continued, “When Ramsay and I met in Cyprus, we connected in two seconds. We talked only about peace and a hopeful future, about all the things our countries had in common. Ramsay's hatred toward Israel has become very personal for me. I do not see the Lebanese as my enemy, and it hurts to know that my country's army is hurting them.”

Amir stresses that he believes an Israeli military response to the Hezbollah attack was justified. “I am not a pacifist or naïve,” he said. ” I know what neighbourhood we live in. But still, it is possible to question the way we have reacted, and what we have done to the Lebanese people.”

There is also a pragmatic consideration: Is it wise to make the entire Lebanese nation – not just Hezbollah and its supporters – into our enemy?

“There is a saying in Israel – 'when the missiles fall, the debate stops.' So when will it be the right time to talk? When it's too late? When the damage is already done?”

Ehud Barak was elected prime minister in 2000 largely on his promise to withdraw the IDF from southern Lebanon after an 18 year occupation. For many Israelis, Lebanon was our Vietnam. Those who were against the withdrawal based their opposition on the belief that, without an Israeli military presence in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah would be free to build itself up militarily to the point of posing a threat to Israel's security. The response of Barak and those who supported the withdrawal was to promise that if Hezbollah did attack, Israel would respond with full military force.

That is why there is a wide Israeli consensus in support of the current IDF operations in Lebanon, even amongst most of the prominent supporters of the centre-left position – despite their great discomfort with the reports of the civilian deaths and destruction of infrastructure. There is a sense that Israel simply had no choice. Amir wonders if we are failing to ask the right questions, and I think that is fair enough. Israelis are proud of their strong democracy and of their ability to engage in self-examination; I don't see any contradiction between loving and supporting one's country and maintaining one's ability to ask difficult questions even during a time of crisis. Quite the contrary, in fact. Especially after what happened yesterday in Qana.

Ramsay and Amir have been interviewed by Time Out New York (Ramsay's interview is here, Amir's is here) and written about in Time Out Chicago, here, where their very powerful email exchange is reproduced.

They are still in contact via email. During the first couple of days of the Israeli bombardment, their friendship was little affected. But now it has become very strained – as Amir describes, with great sorrow, in a follow up article for this week's edition of Time Out Tel Aviv. I'll write more about that in my next post.

If you liked my post, feel free to subscribe to my rss feeds

Post meta

This entry was written by Lisa Goldman and posted on July 31, 2006 at 6:41 pm and filed under Main Page. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post. Post a comment(Latest is displayed first) or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

Share with others

Post Time Out in Beirut and Tel Aviv to digg.

Post Time Out in Beirut and Tel Aviv to Reddit

45 Comments so far (Add 1 more)

As always, a great read, Lisa.
The following line strikes very close to the heart:

“People say terrible things, sometimes, when they are under emotional stress. Sometimes you just have to step back and let the bile flow, until it dries up of its own accord and reason re-asserts itself. “

1. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
“People say terrible things, sometimes, when they are under emotional stress. Sometimes you just have to step back and let the bile flow, until it dries up of its own accord and reason re-asserts itself.”
I'm glad you said this. It is important to remember the difference between anger and hate.

2. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
This story hit very close to home for me. I have a jordanian friend who visited israel for the first time a few years ago. he had grown up his whole life believing it was a place full of colonialists, arab-haters and oppressors. He visited the country and fell in love with it (and with the beautiful israeli women, I think!) He was in beirut at the time of the bombing, working there, and wrote an email to a group of friends about his experience. The vitriol, anger and — who knows? — apparent hatred felt like a personal assault. I didn't feel angry at him, but just deeply weary. I haven't been able to bring myself to email him back yet — I dont know what to say. Hope slowly slips away when we, who have first hand experience on both sides, can't maintain our empathy during times like these

3. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Here in Canada, we watch, and feel so impotent to say anything that will help bring peace for all the people of Israel and Lebanon.
I have a dear friend who will be going to Afghanistan as part of our Peacekeeping deployment. He, like most military personnel has a family, a wife and two teenage boys. We sadden at the very thought of life lost. Shalom!

4. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Lisa, this is such a powerful story. Not entirely because of the story itself, but because of the way you tell it. Incredibly sensitive and subtle on your part… such a gifted writer and thinker. are you…
Dan C.

5. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Doesn't it say something. When moderates. The enlightened ones, like Ramsay, flip.
It says something. But is anyone listening?
I used to want peace more than anything. Now, I don't want it at all.

6. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
So you want a perpetuation of war, PR? What do you think peace is?
Peace, at its most basic level it is the cessation of death and violence. You don't want that to stop? You want people to keep killing each other?
Not to get all into semantics, but I think you are saying you don't have a taste for making nice with parties you are angry with. Which is your right. But peace. Peace is so much more than that.

7. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” -JS Mill, 1863

8. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. -Jack Handey

9. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Perpetual Narcissist:
Well, it looks like you're getting what you wanted.
What a putz.

10. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
What it says is that they are disappointed and angry, being enlightened or better educated or well travelled doesn't stop that from happening. It is even more frustrating for people who value open dialogue and building bridges because there is also the humiliation of countrymen accusing them of being foolish or naive when things go wrong. Left wingers on the Israeli side know the feeling well. Listen to all of the right wingers with their “I told you so's” regarding the build up of Hizbollah. If you listen real closely you'll hear them blame the current crisis on the left, for “trusting” the Lebanese, for pulling out of Lebanon; many reserve their strongest vitriol for the left. I'm sure you hear the same kind of thing on your side of the fence.
And if not peace, then to want what? Endless war? Endless violence? Endless bloodshed? We've all seen that too, and normal people are sick of it. The only people who benefit are groups such as Hizbollah who actually need the hate and the media who need something to sell their papers and to give their talking heads something to do.

11. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Very well said, Lisa. This is exactly correct. And I for one understand the anger and frustration all too well, at the moment.
A very astute observation too, about the “I told you so” contingent now emerging on both sides of the fence.
I think I've managed NOT to give in to it just yet…We'll see.

12. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
“We make war that we may live in peace. ”
— Aristotle
Greek critic, philosopher, physicist, & zoologist (384 BC – 322 BC)

13. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Lisa, another good post. Or rather, it's a very touching story. I've read all the linked articles, and other than the three TimeOut ones, I found the one on the 'bubble' in Beirut interesting. It's a good reflection on the complexity of the Lebanese attitudes and outlook on the war, Israel, Hezbollah, etc.
But why do I get the feeling you're not really saying what you really want to say in your post?

14. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I would like to write about this post of you on my blog. And I definitely will. You see, I have been reading all your posts and as far as reading one's blog can make me know how she/he thinks, I think I know how you feel and how you look at the issues. But here, just for short, I would love to say, there is no cultural bridge or common attempt for peace if both sides don't agree on common basics.
Does Israeli side look at the other side of the wall as human? This is the main question. I'm sure you and many here would strongly say:”Yes!”. But go a bit furthur than that please. How this humanism can be materialized and practiced in real life? Don't tell me about Hizbollah and their rockets targetting Israeli cities. I'm not here to discuss with Hizbollah fans. Here, I have come to face you who support IAF and its killings. Don't tell please you don't. The picture you make of the ongoing war is “the arab side who is angry and frustrated' and the israeli side ' who is sad for his arab friend but well, you see, he has relatives and friends in the north under the attacks of hizbollah, and so for this reason supports IDF killing, let's say in a nice warm civilized tune'.
I think as the first step to be taken, it is expressing your disagreement with what your military does there. I remember in one of recent peacenik rallies in Tel Aviv, you were an onlooker rather than a participant. You can't speak of cultural bridge my friend without taking part actively into actions which will end to real cultural bridges. We don't need just words my friend, when the people are killed every day. Lisa, in one of your posts I remember you pictured some Palestinian militants killing a person suspect of collaboration. I really wonder are you the same sensitive person to judge when hundreds of the victims like that are killed in Lebanon right now?
Laila from Iran

15. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Laila, it sounds as though you are very angry, have jumped to a lot of conclusions based on tenuous evidence, and that you are pretty judgmental about a situation that you only know about from far away.
You have made a few rather presumptuous and judgemental assumptions:
1. That you “know” me from reading my blog;
2. that I – or any other Israeli – “support killing”;
3. that you know better than Israelis how they should behave and/or express themselves in this very complex and difficult situation.
I write about personal stories and human complexity, but you seem to think that this is a blog about political activism. It is not.

16. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Sorry if I sound like what you said. No, I'm not angry. Sad, yes, I am. May be that's my English making such a picture.
I thought by letting people commenting on your blog, you welcome people , even 'angry' people to say what they think of what you write. And I didn't see anywhere to be mentioned on your blog that the people from certain places (geographically far from yours) can't comment and if they do it means they think they know better what's good for you.
Ok, I won't comment any more. Thanks anyway for taking the trouble of answering my comment.

17. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Laila, you are always welcome to comment. I am really glad that you took the time to read and I'm delighted to have readers in Iran. Really.
But just as you were upset by the way you perceived some of what I wrote, so did I feel bad because I thought you misinterpreted me. So I responded.
But that doesn't mean we have to be angry at one another and stop talking. I hope you will continue commenting, and I apologize if I offended you. It's far too easy to misinterpret one another in this kind of forum, so let's not either of us give into the primal emotions, okay?
Peace.

18. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I totally agree with Laila.
Nice words can not hide the reality: Israel is killing people over there, innocent people.
It's true you do express regrets, but so does your government.
If your regrets are sincere, you should act accordingly, you live in a democracy you seem so proud of, so you can a difference.
That is what you can do, and what Laila and I can not.
Morocco seems a far country from the region , but we feel concerned. On top of feeling bad about all the victims, I just don't want more fertile ground for extremism in my country. Israel and the US are just acting in this direction.
Adil, from Casablanca.

19. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Adil,
“On top of feeling bad about all the victims, I just don't want more fertile ground for extremism in my country. Israel and the US are just acting in this direction.”
You ar so right, by making war that is exactly what is going on unfortunately, just creating more hate!
Good article Lisa, it saddened me that 2 potential good friends could end up that way but you cannot blame Ramsay's feelings, he is the one whose country/family & friends were destroyed and unfortunately that is the product of war. It's a perfect point of how war does not point to peace!!

20. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Casablana, one of my favorite Movies.
It was about this bar owner named Rick, an American, who had come to Nazi controlled Casblanca after being in Paris as the Nazis took it over. He didn't want anything of the war that was raging in Europe (symbolic of the feeling of most Americans at that time) and so he just started looking the other way and tried to ignore all the evil that was around him.
By the end of the movie he realized that he couldn't just focus on what he wanted and needed to sacrifice what he wanted for the sake of the greater good. He decided to get back into the fight against evil.
Well, that is what is happening now in the war against terror. People want to be like Rick was at the beginning of the film and just ignore the evil around them and persue their own interest. They need to realize that they might need to sacrifice what they want for what the world needs. For we need to defeat the terrorists' evil just like Rick and his generation needed to defeat the evil of the Nazis.
Rick: If it's December 1941 in Casablanca, what time is it in New York?
Sam: My watch stopped
Rick: We'll always have Paris. We didn't have, we, we lost it until you came to Casablanca. We got it back last night.
Ilsa: When I said I would never leave you.
Rick: And you never will. But I've got a job to do, too. Where I'm going, you can't follow. What I've got to do, you can't be any part of. Ilsa, I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that. Now, now… Here's looking at you kid.

21. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
War comparisons are tempting, but they rarely work. This is not World War Two (or Three), but rather a unique situation. And remember how badly it went for the French when they thought they were applying the “lessons” of World War One to the conflagration that came next. Does “Maginot Line” ring a bell? Not too effective, that…

22. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
That is a hard one, laila. Pacifism can seem like passivism at times.
Unfortunately, political forums on the middle east are so filled with voices who want to rehash history with their own perspective and battle about who is the MOST vicitimized (I wonder what the prize for that would be). It is awful, angry stuff to read, and it deteriorates so quickly.
I know that Lisa has struggled to keep her political opinions out of this blog for that reason, but she has never compromised on her key message. I believe that her message in this conflict has been invaluable. She is consistently asserting the humanity, the stories,and the value of blood on both sides.
It sounds so simple, but remembering that all lives are of equal value – it is something we forget in wartime. And we need voices like this to remind us.

23. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Lives are not of equal value.
Not to a mother.
To a mother the lives of her children are the most valuable lives in the world.

24. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
yes, but being parents can truly help us imagine that every person who dies in this conflict has a mother who feels the unbearable grief of a lost child.
Don't you ever find yourself watching the news and wondering how people with children can set up agendas of warfare?

25. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
No, I haven't.
It is because they have children that they want the best for them and will kill and die to achieve it.
I would kill on behalf of my children. And I would sacrifice my life to ensure that my children lived in a better world.
So, in fact having children encourages war because we have something to fight for.

26. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
The attitude of people who believe so heartily in military solutions makes me despair for the future of my chidren.
You would kill other peoples' children in war because your gov't tells you it will make the world a better place?
You will send your children off to kill and be killed before questioning whether your country is right to be engaging in war?
This “something worth fighting for” and “better world” phrases are empty to me because they are so incredibly subjective. I do not want to someone else's idea of a better world applied to me.

27. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
“You would kill other peoples' children in war because your gov't tells you it will make the world a better place?”
I would.
“You will send your children off to kill and be killed before questioning whether your country is right to be engaging in war? ”
I would because one should support your country when it is at war regardless because it is very destructive to your country when it loses a war regardless of the reasons or if you agree that it was a good or bad idea get into begin with. Losing a war is one of the worst things that can happen to a country.
You just as an individual pick and choose which wars you are going to support and which ones you aren't. If you love your country then you support the war even if you personally disagree with it. What is your other choice? Wanting you country to lose that war? Wanting your soliders to die? Once the decision has been made you must support the war and hope for the best.
If I felt that the war was handled inappropriately or shouldn't have been fought at all, in a Representative Republic I do have the opportunity to vote those who made the decision to go to war out of power. Also, after the war is over I can then be free to criticize those who got us into it.
If I was fundamentally opposed to my country I would have to do whatever I could to leave my country and become a citizen of another one. If by its actions I couldn't love my country anymore, I would be compelled to leave it. But fortunately I live in a very good country where I would never run into the problem of fundamentally opposing it.

28. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Lisa- posts like this make me want to say again how much I love reading your blog. I've been on the Internet a lot since this recent conflict began, and it's so rare to find anyone willing to take the discussion beyond who is “right” and who is “wrong,” and look at the complexities and the individuals. There are always going to be people who want to use any forum at all related to the middle east to bludgeon the other side, nobody every convinces anyone about anything, and it's almost always a vast waste of time. So thanks for bringing a bit more complexity and honest dialogue to my reading list.

29. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Chère Lisa, merci pour ces liens. J'ai bien connu Ramsay, quand j'étais journaliste culturelle à Beyrouth. Son blog est effectivement à l'image du désespoir des Libanais, qui ont perdu beaucoup et qui vont bientôt perdre le plus important, je crois: le contact. L'électricité commence à manquer, les batteries des ordinateurs portables ne peuvent plus être rechargées. Je prie pour ne pas être coupée de mes bloggers libanais. Pour que nous puissions communiquer encore et encore, nous tous.

30. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
“Israelis are proud of their strong democracy and of their ability to engage in self-examination; I don't see any contradiction between loving and supporting one's country and maintaining one's ability to ask difficult questions even during a time of crisis.” Sorry, this is completely wrong even for democracies and Representative Republics. During times of crisis especially times of war you can't afford to ask difficult questions. You need to support the government. You need to support the troops.
Americans didn't ask difficult questions during WWII. They learned to keep their mouths shut. And that is how we won the war – by not asking questions.
Self examination leads to hestiation and in war that can be fatal.
Remember what is true about a Democracy (or a Representative Republic) during peace time isn't necessary true at times of war. War is a whole different ballgame.

31. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Oh, man. If you're going to invoke WWII, do I need to point out that Germans also did not ask questions?

32. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
War may be “a whole different ballgame”, but it would be a terrible mistake to compare the current conflict with WWII or America's involvement in it.
Not to mention deeply insulting to all sides, then and now.

33. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
It is precisely during times like these that we should be asking difficult questions. Isn't a government accountable to its citizens? If I, as one of its citizens, do not like the way that my government is handling a situation, why shouldn't I have the right to express my opinion? We are not a Stepford nation, and freedom of speech is one of the cornerstones of any democracy, even one that is at war.
As for supporting the troops, you are right, but one does not have to support the decision makers behind the troops.

34. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I think that there are too many war fetishists out there who grew up with tales of the glorious victory against a very grave enemy in World War II.
They are seeking the same kind of moral absolutes in modern-day conflicts in order to feel that frisson of military victory of the righteous they have always imagined.
But modern warfare no longer fits that template. So they keep invoking World War II to mask their disappointment at the complexity of it all.

35. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
You know why Americans hark back to WWII?
It was the last war we really won.
And you know how we did it? We did it by standing united. Regardless of what an individual mught have thought about Roosevelt, the New Deal, etc., when war was declared he put all of that aside and didn't criticize the war effort.
Criticizing the war effort just hurts morale. Not only that of the troops but of the people in the homefront. When the bombs are a dropping it is a time to make patriotic songs. wave the flag, do things to support the troops. It is the time to put personal and political differences aside and stress unity. It is not time to practice division under the banner of “freedom of speech”.
Since WWII we have let our own divisions hurt us when we were at war. Many Americans believe that war protests are ok, when clearly they are illegal. During and before WWII people who protested our wars ran the risk of being arrested for treason. But unfortunately our politicians are too cowardly today to enforce that.
When the bombs start dropping you put all politics, debate, and “self examination” (Lisa's term) aside and focus on what unites you as a people. You become as a people singleminded and united working as one to defeat the enemy.

36. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
There was some poll done somewhere that said 80 percent of the Israeli people support the war.
That's great, but it does make me wonder about the other 20 percent.

37. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
“why shouldn't I have the right to express my opinion?”
Because it hurts morale, both of the soliders and those on the homefront.
Because it diverts energy away from the war effort.
Because it serves to help the enemy.

38. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I think we're touching on an inevitable tension that exists in wartime. On the one hand, second guessing can potentially compromise the success of a military endeavour. On the other, this so-called endeavour may be wrong, or unjust, or badly planned, etc… I think that when a person is absolutely positive of the veracity of their perspective this tension tends to disappear, since only one of the two becomes a real threat. Whether or not things are that simple, of course, is the real question.
Despite my emotional response to this conflict, and the bias that comes from it, I cannot rationally say at this point who is right, or just, etc. I lack too much information. I don't think that an argument based purely on empathy or cold military logic is enough. And I think that Israelis who are trying their best to rationally approach this (I admit I am not Israeli), have to contend with just this sort of tension. On the one hand if they exert political force (through the many different avenues available) in order to have the political and military decisions related to the war scrutinized they may be risking the success of a potentially just, or at least necessary, cause. However staying complacent and trusting the government and military may be allowing an injustice to continue. And all the while people keep dying, which just makes this continual intellectual tennis match seem ridiculous. Ridiculous and necessary; another tension.

39. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Hi Lisa,
Ramsay here. Nice piece. But I would like to argue a couple of points – I am not a moderate who has 'flipped' – I think one of the comments said that. But also to try and say that my blog is
' is full of rage, accusations against Israel that are often false, paranoid or unjust' is really just not doing it for me. We are in a war perpetrated by Israel that is killing hundreds of children and destroying a nation, an ideological war now it seems.
'I could not bring myself to read all the entries, partly because I have read or heard it all before in different forums and I didn't see any reason to subject myself to the same litany once again.'
The same litany – Israel has no defence for its actions. I am angry, yes of course I am. I have no job anymore. No Time Out. And I blame Israel for this. Hizbollah could have been handled in another way – before actually starting a war and destroying a nation in the process.
A militarised state which only understands the language of war and killing. Diplomacy before taking action is the normal process of things, at least it seems to be the case with Iran, North Korea even Iraq. But no, there is none of that when it comes to Israel. It is just go in and attack and kill. The villages of my friends and family and levelled, people i know are dead. The bodies of the children in Qana are too much.
People do say terrible things under stress – but i am not saying anything that i do not believe is true on my blog. And when it can be proven to be lies then call it lies. In the meantime it is a point of view take it or leave it, just as I can take or leave yours.
This is not personal. I just want this to stop. And the longer it goes on Israel loses more friends.
I wish I could be more open to dialogue at the moment but Olmert's speech or warmongering hate yesterday said it all for me.
Best regards,
Ramsay

40. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I believe that dialoguing with the enemy during wartime is not healthy.
If I was in Ramsay's position I would absolutely feel the way he does.
But I am not so I don't.
I believe that both sides should stop dialoguing with each other until after the war and then try to rebuild their relationships if that will be even possible, which it probably won't be.
It is hard to remain objective when bombs are being dropped on you trying to kill you. I don't even know why you would want to.
So the best thing right now is not to talk with one another. Wait about six months or so after the war and then perhaps, perhaps friendly relations can resume.

41. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
I see your point but the fact of the matter is that most Israelis do not see the Lebanese as the enemy, only Hizbollah. Unfortunately it is harder for the Lebanese to maintain their focus because Israeli actions against Hizbollah have also hurt the regular Lebanese, no matter how much they try to avoid that.

42. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Perhaps wartime wouldn't be here, if there had been dialogue before…

43. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Ramsay,
What is currently happening to Lebanon and to the Lebanese people is a terrible, terrible tragedy.
In all seriousness though, what form would you see diplomacy taking? For the past six years, since Israel withdrew from South Lebanon, the Hezbollah has perpetrated quite a few cross-border incursions, killing and kidnapping soldiers and periodically firing rockets into northern Israeli towns, all while the Lebanese government and the UN turned a blind eye.
As long as Israel sat back and accepted this situation as the status quo, obediently entering into three-way negotiations whenever soldiers were kidnapped or responding in a tit-for-tat method following other assaults and incursions, the world didn't have a problem. Was Israel supposed to let this situation continue indefinitely? Who should it negotiate with, exactly? Hezbollah, the organization perpetrating the attacks that doesn't even recognize Israel's right to exist? The Lebanese government, which either can't or won't try to rein in the Hezbollah? Should we turn to the UN, one of the largest ineffectual organizations in the world?
It truly pains me to see what Israel is doing to Lebanon right now, and I can't tell you how much I mean that. Israel was left with no choice but to go after the Hezbollah, and though I strongly question and often disagree with its methods (and some of the other commenters here would have me arrested for treason for saying this), and now, unfortunately, the citizens of Lebanon are paying the price, as are the citizens of northern Israel.
All that being said, I hope that your friends and loved ones will be safe, and that many Israelis, just as we are mourning our own losses in northern Israel, are also mourning for the losses in Lebanon, in this battle not of our choosing.

44. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm
“we solved all the problems of the region in five minutes and turned to thinking about the coming years.”
interesting. why not share?
canadian jew

45. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:19 pm

One Trackback

By Say goodbye nicely to peace | Lisa Goldman on January 15, 2009 at 11:30 am

[...] parodies the wildly popular “Big Brother” reality TV show that ended last month. (I blogged about his friendship with the editor of of Time Out Beirut during the Second Lebanon War). The hosts of the show were [...]