It didn't make a dent

A couple of weeks ago an acquaintance asked me what the Palestinian politicians I had interviewed said about the intifada. I told him that I had never spoken with Hamas politicians about the intifada, only Fatah people, and that they all told me the terror attacks had been a mistake. Actually, what they said was that taking the intifada to a violent level had been a mistake.

And why do you think they believe it was a mistake? asked my acquaintance.

Well, look at the consequences, I answered: The 2002 IDF invasion of the West Bank, the separation barrier, the ruined Palestinian economy, the –

Actually, interrupted my acquaintance, I don't think that's the reason.

So what is? I asked.

I think they figured out that terrorism just doesn't work, he responded. Look at Tel Aviv, for example. Business is booming, real estate prices are higher than they ever were, the nightlife and culture life are thriving, there's growth and optimism everywhere. Even at the height of the suicide bombings the nightlife and the culture life were thriving. And look at New York, London and Madrid. They're all booming too, despite the Al Qaeda attacks. Terrorism didn't make a dent.

The way I see it, he continued, those terrorists must be completely frustrated. They must be wondering what the hell they have to do to cause some real damage.

Then he leaned back in his chair, puffed quietly on his cigar, and said: It's just something I've been thinking about lately.

Later I recounted this conversation to Noorster via IM.

Who is this Yoda? she asked.

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This entry was written by Lisa Goldman and posted on June 17, 2006 at 5:25 pm and filed under Main Page. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post. Post a comment(Latest is displayed first) or leave a trackback: Trackback URL.

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16 Comments so far (Add 1 more)

Yoda indeed; but I fear that he is right, and that we are on the verge of something quite new and very unpleasant.
BTW the link to Noorster is broken.

1. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Thanks Udge, I fixed the link to Noorster.
Your response is really interesting; I had the impression that my acquaintance saw the failure of terrorism as evidence that the “forces of darkness” were unable to win. You seem to see it as a foreshadowing of worse things to come. The opsimist in me fears you may be right but hopes my acquaintance is right.

2. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
“Bad relations with the arabs have we” (Okay, originally that was about Wookiees, but I subverted it for my purposes).
I thought the point of terrorism (state or guerilla or Jedi-sponsored) is to foment fear and uncertaintly and get the population suspicious and polarized enough that people allow a fundamentalist/extemist gov't to rule them. Oh wait, that's the fascist M.O. … and I think it has worked in the US.

3. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Stop being so clever all the time – it's intimidating.
xoxo אוהבת אותך

4. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
and I think it has worked in the US.
Oh, good lord, isn't there anyone left on this planet who is not certain that Bush is just like Hitler, only worse? Come on, I am sure there is a better way to describe the US than a paranoid, suspicious population ruled by extremist fundamentalists?

5. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Udge might have a point. But…….
I saw a very interesting interview a few months ago with a reformed IRA terrorist (forget his name) who said that terrorists give up when they see that it just doesn't work, and that was the impetus for the formation of Sinn Fein and the move towards a political solution in Northern Ireland.
So don't let your optimistic side go just yet.

6. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
The optimist in me is sure hoping he is right. It feels like we are certainly on the verge of …something. On my reallllllly optimistically good days I see agreements happening and everyone deciding to try to play nice and economies booming rather than bombs; on my regular optimistic days I see agreements happening that no one pays attention to after a few months of semi-calm but maybe a few advances that stick; and on my bad days I see civil war breaking out (there) and our settlers going crazy here and a repeat of 2002.
I'm in a realllly optimistic day today thanks to your consultation with Yoda

7. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Even I want to be optimistic here, but (you saw it coming right) even on my most optimistic day I worry about this conflicts consequenses. I mean, even if the conflict was “over” tomorrow (yeah, right) there would be years and years of healing needed, if it ever can heal.
All I know right now is that the world need more of the likes of Ms Goldman. Even visiting your blog makes me optimistic.

8. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
The conclusion that terrorism doesn't work, even if it _is_ the conclusion Fatah has drawn, is a thin thing to hang hope on, isn't it? In the conversation with your acquaintance, your guess, Lisa, was that Fatah had concluded that terrorism was a mistake because it led to reprisals, whereas your acquaintance's assessment was that Fatah had concluded that terrorism hadn't made a dent in the targeted societies. But in neither case is it suggested that (even) Fatah has decided that the targeting of civilians is _morally wrong._ In a different context, George W. Bush has spoken of “the soft bigotry of low expectations.” Isn't that what's at work when we derive optimism from the _possibility_ that group x has made a _strategic calculation_ that they haven't made a dent through a barbaric means of warfare? It's better than nothing, I guess, but so far as the deep wisdom of it goes, remember the line sometimes attributed to Freud:
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And terrorists would have made a bigger dent if the IDF hadn't intercepted as many of them as it has.

9. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Lisa – The housing prices in Sederot are plummeting…

10. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Well, yes, I'm not usually that negative; don't really know where that came from. I would love to believe that they will turn to the carrot, having failed with the stick.

11. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
The glass is half empty half full.
The Palestinians seem to understand that they cannot eliminate Israel, and the support for terrorism has decreased. but terrorism is still the norm.
A ,majority of Israelis understand that the occupation doesn't work, but they still think they can annex part of the territories. The Israeli glass is 2/3 full.

12. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
I agree with your Yoda-like acquaintance. It must be very hard to be a terrorist. Hopefully, the resiliancy shown in the face of threats of terrorism will be enough to force terrorists to look towards peace as a means of negotiating, and also as a lifestyle.
שלום לך

13. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Geez, talk of short memory… Lisa, if you re-read your own excellent “How Lisa Came to Israel” series you will be reminded of how terror made a very real dent here just 5 years ago.
Tel Aviv is now booming again now thanks to the fact that there isn't that much terror anymore – probably thanks to the 2002 invasion of the West Bank and arguably the Seperation Barrier as well.
Do you think we'd have this boom now if suicide bombers were still exploding daily in Tel Aviv? I thought one thing we all learned in 2001 was that Badulina style “close your eyes and wish very hard for Peace” unfortunately doesn't really work.
Personally I still remember how the company I was working for in 2002 nearly closed shop because it is impossible to raise money when investors are afraid to visit the country. I remember my girlfriend's father going out of business because there were no tourists, having to work as a security guard instead. I remember many of my friends unemployed for long periods or working for much lower wages. I remember meeting people who graduated engineering degrees with honors and couldn't get any job.
Not make a dent?! Yoda not this guy is.

14. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Nir – Sure, terrorism can effect short term physical damage (and long-term emotional damage). But Yoda's point is that it hasn't succeeded in bringing any society to its knees. The rate of recovery after terror attacks is very fast.
And yes, things were horrible in 2002 – partly because of the terror attacks. But there was a global economic crash that year, remember? Israel's economic boom was pretty much based on high tech starting from the mid-1990s, so it was very hard hit by the effects of the 2000 tech stocks crash. The terror attacks just exacerbated the effects of the economic crash.

15. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
I'm afraid I have to agree with Nir. The attacks on Sderot are emblematic of a feeling among the enemies of Israel that they need to keep Israel engaged in a long-term battle, and especially the civilian population. They may be proven wrong over time and over all – after all, Israel has truly become much stronger and richer over the past decades. They don't care. The story they have fed themselves and now feed their children is that Israel is nothing more than a historic injustice that must be eliminated. Maybe some will talk about single state solutions or two state solutions with “right of return,” but it's hard to find too many Palestinians, especially in the mainstream, who don't view Israel in a dark light.
In keeping with the above, the bombs are simply the manner in which they've decided to talk to us since there really isn't much to speak about otherwise. I mean, if you want Jerusalem and it seems that getting Jerusalem is only possible if a miracle takes place, do you sit quietly and wait or do you try to knock out a brick here and a brick there in the hopes that somehow you'll cause a greater chain reaction that will precipitate the outcome you desire? I think international terror thinks along the same lines. We can only hope our security services in Israel, the US and the West in general are up to the task.

16. Anonymous
on September 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm